EP 94 Women who shaped Aussie history; the sober curious movement with Thai bar tips & how to manage motion sickness

 Do you know who was behind the design of Canberra? What about the first person hired to manage the construction of the Sydney Harbour Bridge? Both are women whose stories have historically rarely been told.

That’s something tour guide, feminist, history nerd, and author Sita Sargeant plans on changing. Frustrated by the lack of recognition for women’s historical contributions, she founded She Shapes History – a tourism company offering entertaining and engaging walking tours in Canberra, Sydney, and Melbourne to make sure the remarkable achievements of women are not lost.

She chats to us about how she got started with her tours, and what her plans are to ensure the message is spread far and wide.

We also talk about the sober curious movement and how Avani Hotels is ensuring no one is left sipping a boring drink!

And Health Direct has some top tips for avoiding motion sickness. 

This mini-series is brought to you by Avani Hotels & Resorts. With more than 40 properties across five continents, Avani offers city hotels, tropical resorts and retreats in nature. For more, visit avanihotels.com

Chapters

• 2:15 Sober Sips at Sin rooftop bar, Bangkok
• 10:16 Sita Sargeant
• 35:05 Tips for combating motion sickness

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to The World Awakes. Travel tales to inspire your wanderlust. Welcome back to The World Awakes. This mini-series is brought to you by Avani Hotels and Resorts. With more than 40 properties across five continents, Avani offers city hotels, tropical resorts and retreats in nature. For more, visit avanihotels.com. How are you, Belle? How's your week been?

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Oh, hi, everybody. This week has been chugging along. I was chatting to ABC Radio Adelaide like I do every month or two. This time we were talking about Tunisia, which is awesome. I'll pop a link up on my website, I think, on globalsalsa.com, if you want to take back a little listen about that one. And also, I went to Geelong to make perfume, which is awesome. quite, it's quite an unexpected place to go. I think you're going to go and make a perfume with somebody who'd been trained in London, Grasse and Paris. So that's pretty cool. And that is at Geelong's only perfume workshop, which is really exciting. I'll tell you a bit more about it in a couple of weeks time though. So that will be a really cool one. You've made perfume before though, haven't you Kirsty?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10

I did. I made perfume in Queenstown fairly recently, and that was a remarkable experience. And They save your recipe so that, you know, that your... I don't know if it's called a recipe, whatever it's called. And so when you make it, they retain a little... documentation of the ingredients that you've put in of the choices you've made and therefore they can keep it so that when you I actually really liked mine I was quite surprised and so you can go back and reorder it yeah so that was fun I've had a pretty busy week too I was doing lots of writing about luxury hotel openings interviewing some gyms and some luxury travel advisors and reworking a Cocos Keeling story for digital god love revisiting Cocos Keeling and putting the next Wanderer magazine to bed so yeah it's been busy but It's so exciting to have this. The next six series will be with Avani and we're bringing you all manner of things. We've got some insights and interviews into sustainability, finding your tribe and also some wellness trends. Kicking off, we're talking about the sober curious movement and getting in the spirit of things. Avani Plus Riverside Hotel in Bangkok has created a cocktail menu called Sober Sips. It's served at its rooftop bar, Sin, and the menu is for those who either don't drink alcohol or are taking a break from it, as the name suggests. And to meet this growing demand, there are also non-alcoholic cocktails on offer across all of Avani's properties.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33

Yeah, it's interesting. The Avani mixologists say that the inspiration is really about how people's lifestyles are evolving. We're more fitness-focused, we're more into wellness, and people are looking after their mental health as well. So more and more people are choosing Avani. not to drink or not to drink all the time or for a period of time, but they still want to be part of the social experience. So those mixologists wanted everyone in the group to have something special. No one left sipping a boring drink like, God help me, lemon, lime and bitters, which I remember became, it was always the default drink really, wasn't it? Oh, you're not drinking. I'll give either the driver, the designated driver or the pregnant person lime and bitters. But what they found was these people The cocktails, the concept is really easy, isn't it? But they're absolutely flying off the menu, consistently topping the sales charts. So just like alcoholic cocktails, these drinks on the Sober 6 menus get the same premium ingredients. They get the same sophisticated techniques of constructing cocktails. It's about giving people a proper drinking experience that Incidentally, it just happens to be alcohol-free.

SPEAKER_00: 3:38

Yeah. And the mixologist was saying that one of the game changers, the Avani mixologist, was actually finding sober spirits from France because those were zero alcohol products, obviously. And they're just incredible and taste just as good as the real thing. So that was a bit of a game changer for them. But it's also not just about the ingredients. Each drink also needs extensive experimentation to get the flavors and textures right. And we have tried one of these out and gosh, trying to, when you're actually mixing a cocktail, you realise how challenging it is. So they use techniques like infusions and ingredient clarification to build sort of a complexity. And so that you, it tastes just like you'd expect from a traditional cocktail. And every step's also about making sure that it has a it doesn't just look beautiful, but it's also tastes really good. And they said that the key to it is also that using obviously high quality ingredients, but also things that are unique. And that's what really can make a difference in the drink.

SPEAKER_01: 4:35

And so just don't take our word for it. We decided to put Avani's The Temptress cocktail to the test. The Temptress, because that's how we roll here on the podcast, is on the menu at the Sin Rooftop Bar at the Avani Plus Riverside, Bangkok. And it is delicious. If you jump onto our Instagram, The World Awaits, you can see what it looks like. But for a taste, it's a bit of a creamy gin goodness. Hang on, I'm going to take a sip because we did make it up in our own homes and not in a rooftop bar in Bangkok, unfortunately. Cheers. Cheers. What flavours are you getting from it, Belle? There is that raspberry right at the top of it. I went a little light on the matcha to begin with because I'm not entirely convinced that I want to give my life over to matcha. So the color on mine is not quite as dark as yours. I think you hoofed it into yours.

SPEAKER_00: 5:33

So to me, I think I just, I think I just added quite a bit. Sorry, I was going to say, I think I just added a lot more raspberries than yours. And because I do love raspberries. I love that. And I love that combination, the flavor. The taste of the raspberries with the gin and then it's just beautiful. It tastes so great. But I have to say, the first one I made, I sent a photo to you, Belle. It was just a complete disaster. I do have a whole new appreciation for what it takes to actually be a mixologist because there is a real skill to it.

SPEAKER_01: 6:03

Yeah, absolutely. I was there straining the pips out of the raspberries and I was like, there's got to be an easier way of doing it than the way that I'm clumping around in my kitchen. So you could do your ingredients together. You start with a non-alcoholic gin. We've got one from Lyres, which was created in Australia. And we added a non-alcoholic amaretto, or you can use an almond syrup, that raspberry puree or raspberry juice, bit of lemon juice, some sugar syrup, which I think I OD'd on a bit, and the matcha powder, which you've You mix up and then you add it into it. So it comes as a powder and then you mix it with some water. And because we are swanky, we did try to make the foam from aquafaba, which is the water that you use that you'll find in cans of chickpeas. So I've got vegan friends that use aquafaba as a replacement for egg white and you can use it in your cookie. So it's basically a superfood. And I've got to say, I was pretty impressed with the foam. Then you've got to just chuck it all in the cocktail mixer.

SPEAKER_00: 6:57

I was very impressed with the foam too. So yeah, so you basically grab all those ingredients and you put them in the cocktail shaker and shake it for about 30 seconds. So massive bicep workout there. And then I actually put too much matcha in the first one, which is why the color looked really awful and didn't quite work out the way I wanted it to. But the second time I've managed to get it, it definitely did a better job of it. So I think there is a bit of trial and error there. You just keep having a go until obviously you get it right. Don't attempt your first one on your guests. And then yeah, you just Just basically give it a good old shake in the cocktail shaker and then put it into a beautiful martini glass and garnish it with a bit of matcha powder or a fresh raspberry. I did put a little bit of matcha powder on the top of mine because it looked really lovely.

SPEAKER_01: 7:42

It is a pretty bright green, you've got to say, but I garnished it with a raspberry, which slowly sank down to the bottom. Definitely, as you say, get some newfound respect for mixologists. They also shared some hot tips. for this drink to say use less matcha if you're new to the flavor and I've got to say I'm buying into that one and I love this one you can actually substitute tea for the non-alcoholic gin which is a substitute I can totally get behind because I do love an earl grey based cocktail and I can also recommend another non-alcoholic spirit that is made in Australia Banks Botanics which is distilled here in Melbourne from botanicals like lemon myrtle and wattle seed which you picked up in the Yarra Valley so there's so many ways that you can play with this these non-alcoholic cocktails. This is just the basic for the whole thing too, because they've actually got quite a few others in their range, haven't they?

SPEAKER_00: 8:32

There are some other non-alcoholic zero-proof cocktails that we reckon deserve a shout out, such as the Pretty Writer, I love that name, which is a signature mocktail at the FCC Angkor Bayavani in Siem Reap in Cambodia. And it's got apple, lime and orange juice, as well as hibiscus shrub. And it's called Pretty Writer because the FCC is the former Foreign Correspondents Club. And I am going there in July and cannot wait to check it out. But you've already been there too, haven't you, Belle?

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

Yeah, I was there the first time I went to Cambodia. Everybody would go to the FCC. It was the place to go for sundowners when it was a correspondent club. And I think when I went, it was just turning over from that. But everybody who'd ever picked up a pen was in town and pretending, like dreaming their life of being a foreign correspondent in an exotic climate. So it's a gorgeous place. But otherwise, if you're in Portugal, head up to the Sky Bar. Say Sky Bar, see me run, basically. Sky Bar by Steen in Lisboa at the Avani... Avenida Libertad Lisbon Hotel, where they are serving the vanilla killer with ginger beer and vanilla, which sounds just delicious.

SPEAKER_00: 9:41

Yeah, definitely does. And we're going to put this cocktail recipe that we made up on the socials, like Belle said earlier, so Job Haunted The World Awakes, and also onto either our Facebook or Instagram to find all about it. And we will obviously put the recipes and all the information in the show notes. And if you're enjoying this episode of The World Awakes, you'll be glad to know you can experience the Soda Sips cocktail menu at the Sin Rooftop Bar on the 27th floor of the Avani Plus Riverside in Bangkok. Head to avanihotels.com to find out more.

UNKNOWN: 10:21

Music

SPEAKER_00: 10:24

This week, I'm chatting to Sita Sargent, tour guide, feminist, history nerd, and author promoting gender equality through tourism. Frustrated by the lack of recognition for women who've made significant contributions to history, Sita founded She Shapes History, which is walking tours in Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne that ensure that women's remarkable achievements aren't lost forever. Welcome to the show, Sita. Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to have you on The World Awaits. Let's start by tell us a bit about your background and how you came to be in the tourism industry. So I am not someone who ever saw myself ending up in tourism, but upon reflection, this was always the path for me. So in 2021, I ended up founding She Shapes History, which is a historical tourism company based in Canberra, Australia's capital city. that is focused on sharing the incredible historical contributions of women. And I started She Shapes History because I had moved back to Canberra in 2020 because of the pandemic. It was the place that I'd grown up in and that I'd always said, if I end up back in Canberra, it's because all of my dreams died. Extremely dramatic of me. And I ended up back in Canberra at my parents' place and I ended up working in an Australian policy research space. And it was the first time in my life where I started engaging with Australian history. And I just had this moment where I was like, God, this is so much more interesting than anyone told me. And then I started asking the famous question of where are the women? Why aren't I seeing women positioned as central characters in the story of Australia? And so I started looking for women's stories and they weren't that hard to find. which is always the thing that I tell people, that once you actually start looking for women's history, you will be able to find it. It's just that their stories weren't being told in an engaging and I would say really accessible way. So after about six months to a year of complaining to a lot of people in my life, I just thought, you know what, I'm going to do something about this. So I started running a weekly walking tour, sharing the incredible stories of the women who had shaped Canberra. And it just grew from there. So why a tour? Why didn't you just do something else? I don't know, write about them or something. Why did you decide to make it into a tour? The pandemic. I was really just burnt out on being alone and burnt out on the internet. And I really wanted that human connection and to be able to have actual conversations with people. And I love tours as a medium for sharing information because it's I would say it's one of the only genres of sharing information that actually meets people where they're at in that you're able to tailor a tour depending on the group. You can share different stories. You can ask questions. Every tour, every good tour should be different. And it's because the group is different. So I think I was just really craving that community and connection, which is why I thought a tour would be a good idea for sharing this history as opposed to a social media account or a book. Amazing. So did you have to do anything like in the lead up? Did you have to get any sort of qualifications or did you just think just through obviously having done such extensive research into your topic that you were well equipped enough and like you say, being a bit of an extrovert, that you were well equipped enough to do it? Yeah, you don't need any qualifications in Australia to be a tour guide. But better or worse, it's not like it is in a lot of other countries. Anyone can just say that they're a tour guide and start running tours, which I'm very grateful for because I think that if there had been a barrier to entry, I don't know if I would have done it. And so what are some things that have surprised you about these? And tell us some of the stories that have really resonated with the people that you've taken on tours. Yeah. The story that we always start with is the story of Marion Mahoney Griffin, who was the woman who is essentially behind the design of Canberra. So when Australia federates and becomes one unified nation, Sydney and Melbourne both put their hand up to be the capital city. And because they both put their hand up, they're like, neither of us can do it. So instead, they agree that they'll find somewhere in the middle. And it takes them eight years, but they eventually end up settling on the site for Canberra. And then they put out this call out to architects around the world saying, send us your best design. And a man named Walter Billy Griffin ends up like putting his hand up and says, you know what? I've ever since Australia federated, I've been thinking it needs a, I could design the Capitol. Like he had a vision of this. But while he may have had this grand vision and had spent nearly a decade telling everyone about his grand vision, when push came to shove, he didn't start putting pen to paper until a few weeks before the competition entry was going to close. And so it ends up being his wife, Marion Mahoney Griffin, who's the one who not only encourages him and makes sure that he puts in an application, but she's the one who illustrates it. She's the one who does all the research into the natural landscape. It's many of her ideas that we see in Canberra today. So it's like a 60-40 split, like 60% Mary and 40% Walter. And she was this huge architectural powerhouse in her own right. She was the very first woman in America to be registered as an architect. She was Frank Lloyd Wright, who was a huge 20th century architect's very first staff member and second in command. She was even Walter's boss. That's how they met. And she did all of this work and was the whole reason he put in an application. But they decided not to include her name on the competition entry because... They thought that if they included a woman's name, it was the 1910s, it wouldn't be taken seriously, let alone when. So it means that from the very first days of Canberra as a capital city, you have the stories and contributions of a woman being very actively erased. Yeah, wow, remarkable. And are those the sorts of stories that you've found that obviously in other aspects that you talk about and cover on the tours? Yes. So the whole kind of point of our tours is to show that there are so many different ways to shape history and that so many different types of women have shaped history in Australia and from Canberra. So we have women who were architects like Marianne, the first women in parliament, Dorothy Tanguy and Enid Lyons. We've got stories of the different women who broke the glass ceiling through federal politics. of activists, of lawyers, of librarians, of spies. So it is a whole range of women who have made Canberra and Australia what it is. And we really want people to leave understanding that it's not just one type of person who has shaped Australia and shaped the nation, but a whole range. And that we want people to leave feeling like they too are shaping history. Like our whole aim is to leave people feeling really inspired. So you started in Canberra, right, with one tour. Tell us a bit about how it's grown and what you're doing now. At the end of 2022, I had a publisher reach out who had seen the tours online, had never been online, and she saw what we were doing and was like, this would be a great book. So she submitted an inquiry via the contact form on our website. And then we ended up having a meeting and she basically pitched this idea to me of taking what we do in Canberra these kind of guided walks and making it national. So developing guided walks for cities and towns across Australia. And then by the end of 2023, I had quit my very well-paid job at a museum and used the advance money to purchase a Subaru Forester and rooftop tent. And I then spent six months driving around Australia, uncovering stories of where women had shaped history and And from that, I came back and I very manically wrote a book in a few months and then went through a brutal editorial process. And it really highlighted for me how it's not just Canberra where women's historical contributions aren't being recognized. This is a national thing. It's a national issue. And it made me want to scale up and expand to cities across Australia. So that's what we're in the process of doing. But the book is out. It's Came out in stores very recently. And I think it will genuinely transform how people see this country. So what are some of the experiences that you had when you were traveling around? Tell us some of the really amazing stories and experiences that you had when you were traveling around doing this research. Yeah, I did the whole trip by myself. I don't think there's anyone else that I could have spent six months alone with living out of a tent. I... I went to, I met so many incredible people. I actually, I think it was the people that really made the trip for me. Like I met so many amazing people in pubs across Australia, in museums, in libraries. I met people on hikes. I took advantage of the fact that I was traveling across the country and I went on a lot of multi-day hikes. I like, I find it so hard to just think of one moment that was amazing because I feel like every day I was just counting my lucky stars and to get back and being back in Canberra as well now for a little while I've been like gosh I really don't think that I think I knew but also didn't fully know how lucky I was to be spending six months just driving around the country and spending like driving on roads where you don't see anyone else for over an hour or going to campgrounds where you're the only one or going on hikes and not seeing people I think it really highlighted for me how empty Australia was and how small our population is and how because of that women have shaped history in so many ways. Like I think that the thing that I left that trip feeling is that Australia is a small enough country that anyone can shape history here. And so many women have. And what were some of the women's stories that you discovered on that trip? Oh my gosh, so many. The book has over 250 and there were over 500 that I initially wrote up before I We had to cut a lot of them to make space. But some women who really stood out to me. I loved the story of Doris Taylor, who was, I would say, like one of the most, I would put it, I'd say top 10 Australians in terms of impact and in terms of just, I think, amazingness. Doris Taylor. So Doris Taylor founded Meals on Wheels. And which today delivers over 10 million meals to 120,000 Australians every single year. So a huge impact in that way. But she was also the person who convinced Don Dunstan, who was the perhaps most progressive premier Australia's ever had and went on to become the South Australian premier, to run for parliament in the 1950s. And it was because she knew that As an older woman in a wheelchair, no one was ever going to elect her. Like she'd been in a wheelchair since she was eight years old. She was like, no one will ever elect me, but I want to see people who like represent my views in parliament. So she convinced this very charismatic young lawyer to run. And he, when she died, said that aside from his wife, Doris was the most important woman in his life. So not only did she lead to one of the most, it's a forward thinking premiers Australia's ever had, actually becoming a premiere but on top of that she founded Meals on Wheels and I would love to see a statue of her and I would love to see more people knowing her story and her name and she started Meals on Wheels called it Meals on Wheels because she was in a wheelchair whereas most people probably think it's Meals on Wheels because you deliver them in a car Yeah, I'm not quite sure if it was because she was in a wheelchair. I think it definitely adds that double meaning to it, the meals being delivered. I think it's quite beautiful kind of knowing that. I would love to see a statue of her somewhere in Adelaide. There were honestly just so many stories. Another story that I love was of Kathleen Butler, who was the first person hired to work on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, which was a huge infrastructure project. We've all seen the Sydney Harbour Bridge. It's quite big. 1920s. She's the first person hired to work on it by the project engineer. And she is essentially in the role of a project manager. She manages all the contracts. She negotiates everything with government. She manages the international tender process. Like she keeps it on time and on budget for about five years. And she's only 31 when she starts this job as well. And then at the age of 36, she has to resign because she got married and the New South Wales Public Service had a bar on married women working up until 1966. So you have a woman who was behind the Sydney Harbour Bridge to the point that the chief architect said it wouldn't even exist without her. Yet no one would ever expect that the Sydney Harbour Bridge has had a woman who project managed it. Remarkable. So with your tours, what do you do when someone, you know, do you take them to the actual places where obviously where you're talking about? Like with that, you would go to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. But what about some of the other stories that maybe there's not something tangible to take them to? Or are you walking around and talking about all sorts of different stories so you can just tie in some of these other stories in your tours? Yeah, so we either on our tours, we'll either take people to sites where history has happened. So where something has actually happened and a woman has shaped history there. or where a woman has been commemorated. So it's one or the other. So it might be that a woman has a place named after her, has a monument, has a memorial. So we'll either share the stories of that or it'll be this amazing thing happened in this location. Why do you think that you personally, as on a personal level, passionate about telling women's stories? Obviously, you're a woman. But what do you think has shaped you to become sort of someone who And what an incredible niche to discover, like there's no one else doing this. Yeah, I have always been someone who is really passionate about gender equality and a very long time and very proud feminist. And I truly believe that the lack of respect and recognition for women's historical contributions is a direct reflection of the lack of respect that we have for women's contributions today. And I think that if we are ever going to respect women today, which we like, frankly, we don't respect women in the same way that we as a society, that we respect men and their contributions. I think that we need to relook at history and acknowledge that women have made this country what it is. And yeah, acknowledge that it also took all sorts to make the Australian nation, that it wasn't just men in suits or men building things, that it Australia wouldn't exist if women hadn't been running businesses, if women hadn't been feeding women, if women hadn't been like entertainers, like if women hadn't been writing speeches behind the scenes. Like this country would not exist without women. Yet we don't really recognize or respect them in the same way that we do men's contributions. And I think that if we're ever going to respect and recognize women's contributions now, we need to first look at the past. Yeah, really good point. And so what are the plans for the future? And so do you think, obviously, there's an education process in play here. It's important for the next generations to also, particularly for boys, who it seems, unfortunately, in a lot of cases, and just speaking very broadly here, but that it does seem that, yeah, that message isn't really resonating all that well or hasn't to date. Yeah. Yeah, I would really love for us, at the moment we really target adults with our tours and with the book, but I would love to start doing more school tours. And I think that as we expand to other cities in Australia, that is something that we will definitely start doing more of. And I am currently in talks with the publisher to do a child-focused version of the book that is aimed at children and From years five to probably years like eight in school. So what's that age group? I think like 10 to 13, maybe nine to 13. So just a younger audience. And I think just making these stories just hyper accessible and engaging so that teachers can more easily be able to bring this into the classroom. Because that's some of the feedback that we've gotten from teachers, that they really want to share more women's stories and particularly Australian women's stories, that when they share women's stories, it's often international women. They're not women who have shaped history here. But teachers are so overworked and so bogged down with bureaucracy that they don't have the time to be deep diving into the archives to find these stories. So I think that for us, we want to really just help them and make it easier. by making a children's version of the book and working with cultural institutions like the National Library of Australia to create digital resources for the classroom. So I really do view what we are doing as very holistic in that we started and we will always run tours for adults, but I think that there is a huge need to be doing this for young people as well. Did it surprise you when you were starting that no one was actually doing this? Is anyone actually talking about these remarkable women in Australian history? Yeah, I was surprised. There are definitely individuals who, and there are a lot of individuals who are working to bring women's stories more out there, but they often are historians or academics who are focused on a particular woman or particular moment in time. And I think that there's that absence of people who are working to make it accessible to a wide audience. And I think that's what tourism does. Like it's not pretentious. It's accessible to a wide audience. It is a customer service role. You have to meet people where they're at. And I think that that's where the gap was, that there wasn't anyone working in that space about going. Like How can I take all of these incredible stories and make it accessible to a wide audience and make it engaging for a wide audience and for an audience of people who might not necessarily be interested in history otherwise, which means that you have to share the interesting bits and make it interesting. So I think that I've been surprised that there isn't more of that, but I've discovered so, so many people who are working in the Australian women's history space. It's just that We are one of the few who are working to make it hyper accessible and engaging for a wide audience. Amazing. And what sort of feedback are you getting? What do people say? Are people just genuinely, obviously they're coming on the tours because they know what they're getting into. They know that they're there to learn about this remarkable history of women. So what are they saying after the tours? People are always surprised by how few of these stories they know. And they're always, we always get the comment of, I wish that I had learned this in school. So they're always really surprised. We have had some really amazing moments where men and women have realized why their moms might have made decisions they did. I had a really lovely interaction with a man recently, like an older gentleman on the tour. And at the end of the tour, at one of the last stops on the tour, we talk about the marriage bar in the public service. And then at the end of the tour, he was saying to me, he was like, I never realized that My mom didn't really have a choice. I thought she just didn't want to work. And you could just see him like viewing his mom in a really different way. And I think that by sharing this history, like you can help people have those real like aha moments where they realize, oh, maybe women just didn't have the same choices as men, which is why we didn't see women in certain leadership positions until now. It's not because they weren't as capable. It's because there were literal policies that locked them out. So I think that we really fill in a lot of gaps for people. And I think that they're also surprised by how interesting Australian history is, but also how recent it is and how much it affects our lives today, yet we never talk about it. Yeah, amazing. So do you, in the future, will you, how will you obviously continue to look for women's stories? Are you going to continue until there's no woman's stone unturned? Yeah, our goal is that we want to launch tours in every capital city in Australia over the next two-ish years. And I think that the thing that I love about the tours is that you can do different themes. You can share different stories. You can change it up depending on the group. So I think that there is so much room to be sharing women's stories and to be digging them up for various things. So I'm really excited by that prospect. And I think that by having a She Shapes History tour in cities across Australia, it will just be bringing that like constant and ongoing attention to the fact that women have shaped history here. We're just not telling their stories. Amazing. I love this so much. I could talk to you about this for a real long time, but we're running out of time. So I'm going to ask you the question that we ask all of our interviewees, which is what's the most bizarre thing that's ever happened to you on your travels? Oh my gosh. Okay. This is a good one. I haven't told this story in years. So I have always been really big into solo travel and particularly solo hiking. So I've done a lot of multi-day hikes by myself and that I first got into that in New Zealand. Like New Zealand's a great place to get into hiking and multi-day hikings in particular. There's so much infrastructure. Whereas in Australia, I feel like you got to prepare a million and one things to go into the bush. Whereas in New Zealand, you don't. So I was off hiking alone in New Zealand in the one of these on one one of their great walks and no one else was there and I ended up that one on like night two of a four-day hike I'm sitting at this hut looking up at the stars and I see what looks like a UFO and it's just it's like this white light that's moving in random directions and it's looking like it's trying to find a place to land And I'm just watching this going, oh my God, am I about to interact with an alien? And I was also 18 at the time and I was on my first hikes by myself. And I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, is this alien just going to land here? And am I going to be the first contact for this alien, an Australian woman? And I'm watching it and then it like flies away. And I spend the next two days just thinking about how, of course, New Zealand would be the place that you'd come to if, you know, you were an alien and you wanted to invade another planet or just explore. It's a little bit out of the way. And then, so I end up, and then a few days later, I ended up starting a different hike for Abel Tasman Track, which is a gorgeous beach hike. And on my third night there, I ended up running into the park ranger, who, very lovely, Ranger Phil. I have so many fond memories of him. I was the only person in that hut again. And He ended up sharing his bottle of whiskey with me and we had a lovely chat on the beach. And then I finally opened up to him about my like extraterrestrial experience. And then he just starts like hacking himself. He is laughing. And he's like, that's like a weather, a weather satellite just trending. And I'm like, what? I was moving in weird directions. And he's like, why would a UFO come to New Zealand? It's a weather satellite. Oh, that's so funny. I still believe that I saw a UFO in New Zealand on one of my first hikes ever. And now I'm always on the lookout. I love that story. That's so great. It's been so great chatting with you and we will put all the links in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 34:50

I loved hearing about those remarkable women whose stories have been lost in history. This week, we're sharing some tips on avoiding motion sickness, which is a tricky sickness to get if you're a traveller. You most likely get it when you're in cars or buses, flying or, most notoriously, on boats. It's that feeling of dizziness or nausea, even cold sweats and dry mouth or too much saliva. Am I oversharing on this one? But I don't actually get that. I am pretty lucky. I've managed to avoid it. But do you get motion sickness, Kirsty? Go on, share with us that time you threw up on a boat.

SPEAKER_00: 35:40

I actually don't. I do get motion sickness, but I actually don't throw up. I'm just not really a throw up type of person. I never really have been. But no, I definitely do get motion sickness and it's mostly on boats, but also on long car rides too. And yeah. And as you said, you're lucky that you don't.

SPEAKER_01: 35:59

No, absolutely not. I do not get motion sickness. Thank goodness. I think my life as a travel journalist would be far trickier. I can read in cars. On the bus in Tunisia, I was working on my laptop. I don't mind a rough sea. Love a bit of a rough sea. But I did pack ginger tablets when I went to Antarctica with my mother, who was an excellent sailor. She was very disappointed when we sailed through the Drake Passage. It was like a mill pond. So we didn't get to... Have you ever... Have you ever sailed to Antarctica? Because you... When you make the crossing, you basically have to strap yourself into bed. So you feel like, oh my gosh, it's going to be terrifying. And the grand piano gets chained down and then nothing happens. And you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, I am one of the lucky ones.

SPEAKER_00: 36:43

Yes, you are. You are very lucky because apparently it is very common. And according to Health Direct, the National Health Service in Australia, motion sickness actually runs in families. So generally... you'll obviously feel better when you stop moving or after you've thrown up if you can throw up. But neither obviously is a very ideal scenario. And in my case, I wasn't necessarily passed down through the family that I know of until I got pregnant. After I got pregnant, I got really bad motion sickness while I was pregnant. Nice little gist the kids passed on. And yeah, and then it's continued on from there. So always just that feeling a bit rotten if the seas are a bit rough or if we're in a car, like I said, So we've got some tips for combating motion sickness, either for you or to help out some other people. And the most obvious one is, yeah, I find that when I can look at a screen for a short amount of time, but I definitely, if I am reading, I couldn't read a book while I'm on a long drive or yeah, if you're looking at a screen for a long time, that's problematic. So look out the window and just say, focus on the horizon. And it does help me if you're looking up and out the window rather than down at a screen or a book.

SPEAKER_01: 37:46

Yeah, and they also say to open a window or crank up the air vents for some fresh air. Health Direct suggests you sit still and rest your head on a pillow or a headrest just to take the tension off your neck and help you relax. And if you're flying, sit still and close your eyes during takeoff and landing. That in-flight movie can wait. And it also suggests sitting up the front seat or at the front of the bus. But look, I have to say... I know people who have used the motion sickness claim to get the front seat of the two of us for the entire trip. That makes you nobody's friend. So take a look at these other options so that you don't get motion sick. There are some other suggestions, aren't there, Kirsty? Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 38:27

Yeah. Look, I was on a cruise from Melbourne to Hobart, which was really rocky, and someone suggested putting You just put a single foam air, one of those little... Earbuds. What are they called? Earpods? Not an earpod. A little... Earbud. Yeah, one of those little foam earbuds into your ear, but only into one side. They said if you put it in just into one side, then that actually does stop the motion sickness. And I tried it and it does actually help. So that's quite a good tip. A little less obvious than some of these other ones, which everyone's always heard about. And also, so things like, which we all know, which is eat lightly and don't drink alcohol before you're going on a long trip or on a boat which is pretty obvious as well because it does obviously make you sway a bit more and you can also buy some pressure bands from chemists for quite cheaply for under$20 and or you can go down the medical route and get sort of antihistamines and any other sort of travel there's a lot of travel sickness tablets on the market there that you can get or if you want something more natural yeah ginger tablets but they've never worked for me

SPEAKER_01: 39:28

I can't say that I tried them. Look, another good tip is to listen to music and focus on your breath as well. You might have a go-to calming music that you listen to. Like I've got a one-hour yoga track. that I listen to when I need a bit of deep focus or something calming if I'm on a long flight or super stressed. It's actually, it's called The Future Sound of Yoga. I'd look that one up. And I've got another one called Music for Plants, which is a list on Spotify that I listen to. And a lot of flights also have meditation music on their playlist. So pop your heads on, pop your headset on and focus on that one.

SPEAKER_00: 39:58

And if you want to read up on motion sickness and how to control it, jump on over to healthdirected.gov.au and we will also put a link in the show notes. If you'd like to help support our production costs, you can buy us a coffee at coffee.com slash theworldawaits. That's ko-fi.com slash theworldawaits so we can continue to bring you inspirational travel interviews with the world's best.

SPEAKER_01: 40:24

Next week, my guest is fellow travel journalist Michael Total. He's taking us for a slow ride down the Mekong River in Cambodia aboard the brand new absolutely gorgeous boat, the Bohème. So let him take us for a slow ride through some absolutely spectacular landscapes on what is one of the best new tourism products to come out of Southeast Asia at the moment.

SPEAKER_00: 40:48

And if you've enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Click on our profile, scroll to the bottom to ratings and reviews. And if you're on Spotify, go to our main page and click the three dots underneath our photo. or simply drop us a line at hello at theworldawakes.au. We love nothing more than hearing from our listeners. That's a wrap for The World Awaits

SPEAKER_01: 41:08

this week. Click to subscribe anywhere you listen to your favourite pods. Thanks for listening. See you next week.