EP 158 Expert packing hacks with @styledbysally; come to Algeria with Belle & is Jetstar rorting us?

Melbourne stylist Sally Mackinnon founded the viral @styledbysally instagram account, and this episode, she talks to Belle about packing hacks and how you can genuinely travel stylishly, and with carry-on only.  

We're talking tight colour palettes and sudoku, but the key, she says, is not to dress like a tourist. Sally also shares ideal boarding outfit, which has no whiff of a brand-emblazoned hoodie about it.

“I do think we’ve lost the plot with plane travel style,” says Sally. "There’s nothing wrong with making a bit of an effort. Because how you dress influences the way you feel." 

And in other huge news, Belle has launched her travel-writing tour to Algeria, departing March 2027!  Join her on an adventure through the Sahara and souqs, kasbahs and the footprints of civilisations past; visit globalsalsa.com

Also, what's your opinion on Jetstar now charging for your carry-on luggage? Read on for AirlineRatings.com's take.

https://www.airlineratings.com/articles/jetstar-just-did-australian-travellers-a-favour-but-nobody-wants-to-hear-it 

Transcript

Belle (00:42.178)
Hey. Sally Sally, welcome to the World Awaits. So exciting to have you on the podcast.

Sally (00:53.624)
I'm very excited to be on your podcast, Belle.

Belle (00:56.484)
Well, you know, like I feel like I've got this strange affinity with you because I've been following you on Instagram for quite some time. You're based in Melbourne, I'm based in Melbourne. and I I've been living on your Instagram trying to up my styling game. So just tell us a little about how you how you got into the world of styling because it wasn't something you were born into.

Sally (01:17.866)
No, it wasn't something I was born into. I was really born into a life as a as a teacher, as an educator. followed my mum's footsteps, studied to be a primary school teacher, so did that for thirteen years, really didn't think that I would be doing anything other than teaching. I mean, you know, back then I'm you know, I'm fifty four, so you know, going through high school in the eighties, uni in the nineties, you know, jobs like personal styling.

Or even like a lot of these kind of creative jobs that I feel like are very common today just weren't even around. You know, I think it was still very traditional for you to if you did go to uni, maybe as a woman, you know, you followed still certain pathways, teaching, nursing, or you know, certainly it wasn't like we're talking about the nineteen forties, but it was still fairly traditional. Lots of my friends at the end of high school left and did apprenticeships. others, you know, then then there was a handful of us who went to uni.

And then really I decided in two thousand and six that I had had enough of being a public school teacher. I could see the the the system shifting, which was a good prediction 'cause it certainly has. And I realised that the personal styling industry, which I was obviously always very you know, comfortable with, knowledgeable about, obviously had a great interest in fashion and shopping.

I just thought, wow, I reckon I could do something like that. And I also have to preface this by always saying, and you know, I mention it in my book, that it was really because of Trinity and Susanna back in at the that time having their TV show What Not to Wear that really brought it to the fore that personal style could was accessible or could be accessible or at least applicable to everyday people like you and me, not just celebrities.

Famous people, rich people. And so I would watch those shows, and everything just made so much sense to me in terms of the styling advice that they were giving. And obviously, back then it was very much focused around dressing for body shapes and flattering and all that kind of stuff. And that was just how it was back in the day. and that's kind of how I just decided, you know what? I was in my mid thirties, I couldn't see myself.

Sally (03:45.292)
Teaching for another 15 years. and I just gave it a crack and I came up with a business name styled by Sally, and I took out an ad in a local paper in Melbourne, and the phone started ringing that day. There was no website, it was all pre-social media, you know what I mean? Like, and yeah, the rest is history.

Belle (04:06.497)
That is amazing. But I've got to say, what I loved about reading in your book was, and which you are very modestly failing to mention, is is situations where people recognized your style, like when you were walking through New York as a backpacker dressed up, and someone mistakes you for a stylish New Yorker. And I think I'm just I'm just popping that in there because congratulations, you.

Sally (04:20.469)
Yes, yes.

Sally (04:26.163)
I know. Well that yeah, and look and to be honest, that was a really pivotal moment in my new career. You know, that moment really made me stop and think 'cause I was on long service leave. I was travelling on my own for six months. I was in New York. I had that thrown that comment thrown to me by a New Yorker, thinking that I was from New York just by how I was dressed, having lived out of a backpack for nearly at that point.

close to four months. I just thought, okay, Sally, this is your sign, this is your sign. So I literally emailed my prin school principal that night and said, Obviously I'm coming back next year. Can I work a four day week? And that's when I slowly started to build up the business over the next two years.

Belle (04:56.761)
Amazing. Amazing.

Belle (05:12.129)
That is incredibly flattering because I've got to say when I've lived out of a backpack, I look like I've been dragged backwards through a bush. so as a consequence, there's a decade of me with no photos. So I am steering this conversation toward travelling and travelling stylishly, because that is something that I've personally struggled with. but I so so when I go through your Instagram, I've been fascinated about how you've approached travel and packing for travel.

Sally (05:25.612)
Yeah.

Belle (05:38.941)
and packing for a trip. You've been trialling a lot of methods and strategies. So try yeah, hit me with some of your key strategies. Can you please transform my life? That would be great. Thank you.

Sally (05:43.36)
I have.

Sally (05:49.078)
Yeah, well I think at the end of the day, like I I must admit, I used to be a chronic overpacker, and I've literally just got back from a long weekend in Tasmania, in Hobart. So I was just having this conversation with my girlfriend how, just like she has with other aspects of her life, there's that and I was just trying to think of the term, Belle, analysis paralysis. Have you heard that t where you get so caught up in the details that you just you're just paralysed, you can't think.

And I used to be exactly like that with packing. I just would just get so confused, not know what to take, and then of course go on holidays, take things that were either inappropriate or didn't feel quite me. and it was a really stressful time. So before I discovered the method that I'll I've been trialling more recently, like literally just this year, I first started breaking it down to three colours.

So the first time I felt like I really nailed a great kind of you know, I'm just talking a like a long weekend travel capsule was breaking it down to three colours. And that's almost something that is a really easy starting point for most of people to give to give a go. Because when you look in your wardrobe, there'll absolutely be a chorus of at least three predominant colours in your wardrobe. And we buy colours

Be it black, be it blue, red, whatever it is, we buy colours because we feel good in them. So it doesn't matter if your three colours, Belle, are black, navy, and cream, for example, or you know, or are really muted classic colours. But it alternatively, it doesn't matter if your three common colours are red, purple, and orange. You know, you're buying those colours for a reason. So by narrowing it down to three colours.

Which essentially is what kind of any packing method is about. It's about narrowing it down and kind of getting rid of all the noise, which is what I had the problem with, and kind of having giving you a place to start. so there are tr there are absolutely travel packing methods and I'll tell you about my latest one. But the thing that I you know, you mentioned you've got my book and and there is a whole chapter in my book about travelling, is that what I've

Sally (08:13.631)
also learned that has been an absolute game changer is to think about the holiday that you're going on. So what kind of holiday are you going on? So I'll use this as an example. So if I'm going to somewhere like New York, I'm pretty much going to have the same kind of holiday that I would have if I was holidaying in Melbourne. You know, going to great restaurants, going to bars, going to some galleries, going out for breakfast, having going for shopping, g

So you ask yourself, Sally, would I wear sneakers? So I'm just talking about myself, okay, 'cause it's my style. Would I wear sneakers around town in Melbourne for or to do this or to do that? Or would I wear a puffer jacket? Or would I wear leggings? And the answer is no. 

Sally (09:05.611)
So no, I would not wear those things in Melbourne because it's not my style. It doesn't make me feel confident, it doesn't for me, it doesn't make me feel stylish, it doesn't make me feel like Sally. So why just because I'm going traveling to X, Y, and Z would I pack things to kind of I think the easiest way to compare it is say, I think so many of us pack to be tourists. We don't stop and pack a wardrobe that feels like us. Does that make sense?

Belle (09:33.956)
Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. When I was reading it, I was like, I I can see exactly where you are, you know, you don't want to overload your bag. I have been a chronic overpacker, but then I fight that and I end up veering the other way and and having almost nothing and going, How did I end up with this? I mean, yes, that is a great excuse to go shopping in the destination you're in, but also that's that is not a sustainable way to travel. And if you travel a lot and and you know, we travel well, I travel a lot for work, I can't just keep shopping the world as glorious as that sounds.

Sally (10:04.928)
That's true. But but the irony of what you just said, Belle, is that this method that I have now used twice, including so I've done it for a two week vacation in predominantly Greece. I was in Greece and Turkey in June this year. And I've just come back from three nights and four full days in Tassie in Hobart, so winter. And I use this method called the Sudoku method. And so the irony of what you just said is it actually forces you to take 
essentially kind of nine pieces of clothing. Plus your you know, plus maybe s your shoes, a scarf, whatever, whatever. But it is amazing when you use that method and you do it strategically, how many options you actually have, even though you've only got nine pieces of clothing. It is unbelievable.

Belle (10:54.669)
So just a little bit about the Sudoku method, because it seems that you're an absolute convert on it. So you draw yourself up a you yeah, you I'm I was looking at the the joy, awe and wonder on your Instagram page going, my goodness, you've to try this. And I am totally like I'm like, right, that's it. I mean I've admittedly I think my next trip is going to be Stockholm in the middle of winter. So that's gonna be an interesting one. 

Sally (11:18.142)
No doubt. It is it i it it would be a trickier proposition in winter time, but 'cause I think there's also like there's the there's the method that I personally have used to also take carry on, which is also a game changer. But that's that's not a fade of con like that's not a you know, hard and fast rule about. It's just about narrowing down, giving you a template, giving you a starting point. so yeah, so the Sudoku is I mean, I've never played a game of Sudoku in my life, but from what I understand

Belle (11:44.417)
No, I haven't either.

Sally (11:46.249)
It's all it's so it's a a grid of nine, a three by three grid. And so what you do, so for example, this weekend, you take basically three tops, three bottoms, and then three layers or kind of outerwear. So and when you put them on the grid, no matter which way you go, they all go together. So that's not just to say that you just grab three random tops out of your wardrobe, three random bottoms. That's not how it works, but it it

Because you can only take three tops or three bottoms, you start to be more strategic because you're asking yourself as you're choosing them and maybe laying them on your bed or like I do, I just use my Instagram app to you know, to organise it. You can kind of see that yeah, that goes with that. that goes with that. no, that's the even though I like that, that's an outlier 'cause it only goes with that. Trust me, it just it it somehow magically Belle, I don't know how, but it magically

works. And you can see how I've used it for both a summer holiday and a winter holiday. but as I say to people, it's just a starting point. There's no rules. If you want to add an extra dress or an extra pair of shoes or a you know paw bottoms, like no one's stopping you at the airport. and you know, say, out you go, you know, sorry you can't come in. You you've you've broken the Sudoku packing rules. but it's just for people like you who feel the overwhelm with packing, it's I definitely recommend to give it a go.

Belle (13:20.963)
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I realized when I was reading about your approaches to it that the trap that I fall into is I've I've got a shirt, I love it, like I I I adore it, and I put it in because because I'm gonna because I love it. It's not because it goes with anything else in there. And when I wear it, it kind of makes me happy. But I am not working it in with the rest of my the rest of my packing strategy. And I think that's I pack for the individual pieces I love and I'm not creating that grid.

Sally (13:49.782)
Yeah.

Belle (13:50.562)
And creating those those looks which you say has actually cut down your decision making in the mornings as well. Which is important because especially if you're on a guided tour and you've all got to be in the lobby at seven thirty having breakfast and out the door by quarter to eight.

Sally (13:58.271)
Absolutely.

Sally (14:03.511)
Yep. Yeah. I did a yeah, exactly. And I did a follow up you know, a f a few weeks after I got back from first using the the method. And that's exactly one of the benefits, one of the pros. I actually couldn't think of I can't think of any cons, but one of the pros was exactly that. Because you take less clothes, you've got less to pack away, less to unpack.

And again, less overwhelmed day to day. Like I it just made getting dressed easy, but also I was kind of a little bit smug, you know. look at this, a new outfit every day. So I've just been away with four girlfriends. Basically, three of us use the use the Sudoku method just to pack. Like they've all just become converts. And we all didn't we had no outfit repeating for four whole days. We would just come out every morning, what have you got on next?

Belle (14:53.121)
That's fantastic.

Okay, that amazing. I think I might do that for if I have another tour with people, I'll be right, everybody. In fact, I will sack them if they don't follow the in follow the method. I'm I'm definitely gonna give it a go. let's talk about plane fashion. I have some very strong opinions on this.  I do I am always curious of the fact that we all look like we're about to run a marathon. what  is your what literally? I mean it's taking plane fashion to a whole new level of active wear. What do you wear on long haul flights? And  you know, is there something like is there is it do you ever compromise on that or is this a hard and fast for you?

Sally (15:37.078)
Yeah. So I also did a post about this about a year or so ago because something popped up on the New York Times and I shared it just on my stories and the the response was just like, my god, Sally, can you do do something about this? Sa you know, whatever, whatever. So I did a video, it went viral, right? Because I showed ideas and suggestions on what you can wear on the plane and still be comfortable. So

Belle (15:51.939)
Yeah.

Sally (16:03.456)
The one thing that I did notice about flying to Tassie, I have to say, is like yes, there's some ac there's active wear, right? But there's also now track suits. Everyone's just wearing like hoodies and and trackies. I'm like, you're flying for one hour. I mean obviously yes, for particularly for long haul flights you want to feel comfortable.

Sally (16:31.103)
You know, again, like I I suppose I'm speaking from a different perspective because I am a stylist, and I do like to dress a certain way, but still certainly feel comfortable and feel good about myself. I love anything. I think what makes a really stylish plane outfit, particularly if you're flying long haul, is anything that coordinates. So that could be like a really comfortable, kind of elevated, maybe, you know, s

It could be a track pant, essentially, you know, with an elasticised waist. but you might wear that with a nice sneaker or a good ballet flat. But then over the top you could put something bit little little bit more polished and tailored, like a like a relaxed oversized blazer, with a t shirt and then, you know, maybe a knit over your shoulders that you can then put on if you get a little bit cold. But I do think the coordinating sets, whether they're in really whatever kind of fabrication.

I think they can look really polished and really classy, but can equally be really comfortable. I mean let's face it, there's heaps of elasticized options now, particularly post the pandemic, in in tailored trousers. You know, a lot of them will have a flat front but then elastic at the back so they're nice and comfortable. but the other thing that I always do, like and this doesn't, you know, whatever class you're travelling in, take a pair of PJ bottoms or take a pair of leggings.

to sleep in if that's what you want. You know, you can get changed into them. I know the toilets aren't the the biggest place for you to get changed. But you know, I will take a p pair of pajama pants and as soon as, you know, we're checked in and the plane's off and the seatbelt signs are off, I'll go to the bathroom and take off my trousers and put on a pair of PJs to be comfortable. So it's it's not really that hard, but I do think we've lost the plot with plane travel. Plane travel style.

Belle (18:22.873)
Can I just ask then put a supplementary question into that? Why would you not just wear the the the pajama bottoms onto the plane?

Sally (18:35.087)
Well, I mean w again, okay, I'm gonna go back to my you know, would you wear pajama bottoms to the supermarket?

Belle (18:45.475)
Well, personally I wouldn't. I did notice on my last long haul flight that an awful lot of people walking in it, you know, the big fluffy hello kitty kind of pajama bottoms, you know, the the super fluff ones you pick up for ten bucks in those nameless stores. So I decided to put a rule in it, it was that if you can legally order from the drinks trolley, you you should not be allowed to walk on the plane on them.

Belle (19:13.123)
But there were battalions of people in the Hello Kitty Bottoms. Yeah. So that's that's my rule on it. I am I am not one that I I did my last the the long haul before I was in business and I did the full I had a pair of pajamas that were given from from an airline. Actually they were Emirates ones. and they were given to business class passengers. I scored them as a media thing, I'm gonna say, full disclaimer here. But it was more like a lounge suit. So, you know, they were they were

Sally (19:14.547)
Yeah, that's a good I like that.

Belle (19:41.562)
They were kind of elegant. They had a certain drape about them. I've gotta say, when I when I emerged from that horrible little bathroom, I was like, Wow, here I am, you know, feeling fantastic. You know, I've got I've got these powder blue things happening. So that is interesting. Okay, the pajama bottoms. I'm totally buying it in on this one. Hmm.

Sally (19:52.276)
Yeah.

Sally (19:57.162)
Yeah. There's so many nice options and you know, fabric as you said, that's fluid, that's comfortable. I just you know, I just think yeah, there's there's nothing wrong with making a bit of an effort. You know? Because at the end of the day, how you dress influences the way you feel.

Belle (20:17.27)
but

Sally (20:18.367)
Which kind of, you know, makes me think about the people who are travelling in their activewear or their their trackies. I'm just like, gosh, what kind of goes through your mind to think that that's kind of okay? And I know I'm I'm trying not to be judgy. I I get that people are comfortable, but I do think there's a very fine line and I just think we've just become so casualized and those standards have really dropped. and that's unfortunately that's something that's very obvious when you go to an airport.

Belle (20:48.331)
Yeah, except for the people that are trying to bid for an upgrade, because I know that the New York Times loves running a story on how to get an upgrade. And the first thing they always say is dress up. And I I have seen beautifully dressed people, like, you know, a st like I'm thinking, wow, are you actually going to sit in that for the next fourteen hours? When they're checking in looking magnificent. And then when they don't get the upgrade, of course, they're back in economy and they emerge from the bathrooms in their in their double trackie set. Still looking great, but not looking as sharp.

Sally (21:21.077)
But what does that say? What does that say though? You know, that our clothing that's right, but it it it what it tells us is that our clothing is important. Our clothing sends a message. So rightly or wrongly, before we even open our mouths, when we meet new people, when we see them on we make a judgment call about how people what you know, something about them based on how they're dressed. So that's a really I've never heard about that, but that

Belle (21:24.791)
That sounds that they were trying to bid for an upgrade.

Sally (21:50.343)
is really interesting, you know, observation fact that clearly they've they've made that conscious decision to wear something nice, polished, whatever you want to call it, because they feel that they're going to be treated differently. Hmm. That's something I'm going to think about that one.

Belle (22:07.563)
Yeah. Absolutely. Now you said you you you slipped in there that you're actually travelling with carry on only. Is that is that right? Or I mean if I've got that

Sally (22:18.312)
That's I did. So my last two trips. So I did the t the two weeks in Greece and Turkey. Travel on only. It w I mean which was easier obviously in summer, so obviously lots of light lightweight clothing. as soon as we got off the plane back into Melbourne, my husband turned to me and said, We are never travelling with check-in again. So because obviously it makes things so much easier when you get to the airport. I had a terrible situation a few years ago overseas where my luggage got was lost. So, you know, you don't have to worry about those things happening. but yeah, and and then and obviously TASI for you know, four days essentially in winter was a little bit more challenging. but again just having having that method and and being forced to narrow things down really made you make decisions a a bit with a bit more intention, I suppose, even thinking about what was weight. And look and to be on fair, like I flew Jet Star to Hobart and back and just paid for a flexi fare which gave me fourteen kilos on l on, you know, luggage carry on. So which is exactly kind of exactly what I had by the way. But you know, I could have checked it in as well.

Belle (23:38.083)
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I think

I wanna say last time I flew to Tassie for the same amount of time I went over with Carry On and then I think I bought all the wine so I ended up checking it in on the way back. But yes, so yeah, absolutely.

Sally (23:52.029)
Yes. Yeah, so that's fair enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again though, like I've had lots of people say to me with this, you know, Seduco, particularly the Europe trip, but what about shopping? I'm just like, Yeah, but I don't need to do shopping when I'm overseas. I didn't go overseas to go shopping. I went overseas to relax, to unwind, to not I shop for a living. I don't want to shop while I'm overseas. Do you know what I mean? So we've all got our we all we all do things for our own reasons and we make decisions to suit ourselves, not anybody else.

Belle (29:51.642)
Sally, I'm gonna ask you now for the final question. and I know you've been prepping for this one. Tell me please, it's the question we ask all of our guests, which is, what is your most bizarre travel question? sorry, no, let me say that again. You've talked it up. So tell us, what is your most bizarre travel experience?

Sally (30:16.293)
Okay. All right, you ready? So, with a girlfriend, we went to LA I th and I think we're on our way to Mexico and my friend had met this man who had visited her in Melbourne through other friends and who said to her, when you're coming to LA, you're welcome to stay at my place. So, you know, free accommodation in LA, fine. Turns out this guy

Belle (30:18.369)
I'm buckled in.

Sally (30:44.573)
Basically was I've c I'm trying I was trying to think of how to describe him, but basically was like a a scammer. Like as in he lived his life like scamming his way into things. Like a almost like a not a fraudster, that's the wrong word. But I'll give you an example, Belle, of of while we were with him, a few things that we did. First thing was we went to talked out he talked his way into

office like an off like a business's office work drinks. So that so that we could have free drinks and free food. Does that w that so that's what he used to do. So I don't know how to how to describe him whether but that's so we did that one night and just, you know, met these random people. Yeah. So that was night one. Night two, he takes us to the a performance of Moulin Rouge and taught us how to get in. Now keep in mind, so this was in the early mid two thousands, early, you know, maybe two thousand and two, two thousand and three. So it was before what you know, electronic scanning to go to events. It was just like people sitting, you know, showing you tickets. And this is what you did to get in. So you know, so you go there when e everyone's walk going in, so everyone's kind of gathering to have their chicket ticket checked. You just start s walking, so you approach, but you just

Turn around, you keep spinning. And it because you can't anyway, and next minute you're in. So he did it. You spin your way through. Then my friend did it, who was much more ballsy, like my friend at the time, very out there. Next minute she goes through, and then like and I was standing out. I'm like, I can't do it. I can't I it's just I cannot do this. Anyway, I did it. Next minute we're all in Moon Moulin Rouge, and then you just wait for the lights to go down and

Belle (32:21.251)
So you just spin your way through the the entrance.

Sally (32:43.091)
So that's what he did. Then we went to Disneyland and he scammed some, you know, so that we could get priority access. Like weird.

Belle (32:54.905)
Did you did you did you see a whole different side of the world after that? And did you stick to those techniques or have you abolished them from your travel repertoire?

Sally (33:00.945)
It No, I felt I was horrified. I was horrified. I mean I must admit my friend and I it did give us, you know, we would just laugh about it for years about my god, remember I think his name was Todd. But just a very peculiar man. I actually don't remember what he did for a living, but his whole shtick was basically s I know scam's not the right word, get into places without paying.

Belle (33:30.633)
Right. Wow.

Sally (33:31.591)
Yeah, to l to live his life, to to eat, to be entertained.

Belle (33:38.447)
I love it. That's Was he happy? Was he happy? I mean he he he was drinking champagne three nights a week, wasn't he?

Sally (33:38.739)
What a sad human being. Anyway, that's my story.

Sally (33:45.107)
Mummy Yeah I think he I think he was a bit of a weird bloke. I think he was very shallow and probably very lonely actually.

Belle (33:55.387)
Well he had for a brief moment he had two Australian backpackers sharing his life and bringing colour to him. He probably still talks about you as well. That is that that is curiously random. God, I love travel for the just for the for the people that you meet on the road. So thanks for sharing that one, self.

Sally (34:01.615)
Indeed Indeed I hope so

Sally (34:13.651)
totally. So and it's interesting, isn't it, looking back, I think particularly as you get older, certain things that you did or situations that you found yourself in that you think, my God But anyway, it's all the joy of travelling, isn't it?

Belle (34:23.854)
Do it And do I ever confess that to my child, which is usually the answer is a hard no. Yeah. Sally, I have absolutely loved our talk. You've you've thrown down the gauntlet, you've given me the challenge for my next adventure to try those three colours. Yeah, so I'm just gonna work out where my love of of bright orange fits in with that, and I know that it will because it it is that colour that makes me happier.

Sally (34:50.717)
So you need to go and have a look at my Sudoku highlight. I mean it's all on my feet as well. So on my Grease trip I took a bright orange pair of pants and styled it with everything in my wardrobe. So there you go.

Belle (35:04.326)
I love it. Okay, great. I have bright orange pants too. Snap. Like, yeah, yeah. There is there is a d I

Sally (35:08.618)
Have you ever thought have you ever thought to wear bright orange and lilac?

Belle (35:15.722)
No, I've usually gone the olive route or if I'm in a very bright, sunny place, white because then you dislike your yeah, like that. No, I'm gonna go back orange and lilac. No, I've never thought of that. Amazing, amazing. And that's why that's why I follow you, is so that it listens and it challenges me as well. So thank you for that challenge. The Seduco and the three colours. Amazing. Sally, it's a joy. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Sally (35:23.805)
Yes. Yeah.

Sally (35:29.661)
Really beautiful combination.

Sally (35:38.429)
Thank you.

Sally (35:43.667)
Thanks for having me, Belle.